{ "comments": [ { "body": "deltarune chapter 5 is gonna be kris creating a dark fountain in sans' skull", "created_at": "2026-04-02T20:43:33.701-04:00", "creator_id": 2459780, "creator_name": "TheGoonGuardian", "do_not_bump_post": false, "id": 9744119, "is_hidden": false, "is_sticky": false, "post_id": 5650353, "score": 0, "updated_at": "2026-04-02T20:43:33.701-04:00", "updater_id": 2459780, "updater_name": "TheGoonGuardian", "vote": 0, "warning_type": null, "warning_user_id": null }, { "body": "You back to home after discovering a lot of dark evil crap, bad thing about to happend in a near future and fighting the freakin satan itself just to find your mother drunk dancing with the hobo of the neighborhood...Yeah, that f*cked up.", "created_at": "2025-06-29T15:58:20.819-04:00", "creator_id": 150973, "creator_name": "Gavan95", "do_not_bump_post": false, "id": 9154092, "is_hidden": false, "is_sticky": false, "post_id": 5650353, "score": 1, "updated_at": "2025-06-29T15:58:20.819-04:00", "updater_id": 150973, "updater_name": "Gavan95", "vote": 0, "warning_type": null, "warning_user_id": null }, { "body": "[quote]\"pivo\":/users/15839 said:\nWhat?? ...Man, talk about willfully missing the point of Undertale. Also just because Susie is intensely uncomfortable and a bit disillusioned doesn't mean it's going to give her some kind of heel turn moment. This whole thing is such a weird take.\n[/quote]\n\nIt's tied to the fact that Susie reacted that way at all with how insecure she is. After you beat the boss and seal the fountain, you can go to the apartment buildings and when you check one of them, Susie is quiet for a moment before she says to go to your house, implying she lives in the apartment complex area and even when you just get to the door, Susie would like to spend the night again. Remember, Kris and Toriel are the only real-world support she's ever had, but when she sees Toriel, Susie flips from being insecure to being disgusted and won't even stay in the house, leaving by slamming the door.\n\nWhile she likely won't make a heel turn, it implies her own life is a mess while also having \"unreliable parents\" and that she just may not be so quick to act in defending Toriel.", "created_at": "2025-06-27T05:18:06.745-04:00", "creator_id": 14432, "creator_name": "Daneasaur", "do_not_bump_post": false, "id": 9148810, "is_hidden": false, "is_sticky": false, "post_id": 5650353, "score": 0, "updated_at": "2025-06-27T05:18:06.745-04:00", "updater_id": 14432, "updater_name": "Daneasaur", "vote": 0, "warning_type": null, "warning_user_id": null }, { "body": "[quote]\"pivo\":/users/15839 said:\nToby's been laying a breadcrumb trail since all the way back in Undertale that has basically as of this scene and the music track that plays in the aftermath of the rain, been confirmed; [spoiler]Sans as we know him in Undertale somehow originally came from Deltarune. As to whether he has his famous abilities and fourth-wall knowledge yet I have no idea, but what better world in which for him to have gotten those than the one in which Gaster has [i]not[/i] been erased from the time stream entirely? We've established both Sans getting chummy with Toriel and Toriel being the likely target of an abduction. So Sans is entwined with events now in a way that could potentially extend to a more involved, if different capacity than in Undertale. We might get to see Sans actually giving a shit about something other than stopping the player on the bad route.[/spoiler]\n\nWe don't have confirmation of that one way or the other. The ketchup bottle completes the set dressing of \"there's a strange man in my house and his food is in the fridge\" while also reconfirming his food preferences, but the pancakes escape mention entirely. Maybe because they're not there, or maybe because Kris just immediately lost their appetite because of the atmosphere so the ketchup is the only thing they really register when checking the fridge.\n[/quote]\n\nThe issue is that sans getting involved at THIS point is quite bad. As shown, people are DISGUSTED with Toriel and sans and now Susie, the ONLY one who fought to PROTECT Toriel from the knight, is so disgusted with her that she left and likely won't share that sympathy again.\n\nAdding to it, the player is likely to also lose a lot of sympathy for her and even actively seek for her to suffer in some manner, along with sans for encouraging this behavior instead of using his \"skills\" to encourage toriel into being properly caring and aware.\n\nI've even seen people so disgusted with these events that they have chose to boot up Undertale and go full genocide JUST to have the satisfaction of killing Toriel as well as breaking and killing sans. To say this would be a BAD move on sans part if he DOES have outside knowledge would be an understatement.", "created_at": "2025-06-25T05:17:29.661-04:00", "creator_id": 14432, "creator_name": "Daneasaur", "do_not_bump_post": false, "id": 9144680, "is_hidden": false, "is_sticky": false, "post_id": 5650353, "score": 2, "updated_at": "2025-06-25T05:17:29.661-04:00", "updater_id": 14432, "updater_name": "Daneasaur", "vote": 0, "warning_type": null, "warning_user_id": null }, { "body": "[quote]\"daneasaur\":/users/14432 said:\nI don't give sans the benefit of the doubt here. We don't have anything stating he is remotely the same as the UT version and I must remind everyone that the UT version was only the way he was because he was an assistant for Gaster and had seen the timeline play out multiple times to the point that he felt there was no reason to ever try and change it until you try and destroy the world.\n[/quote]\n\nToby's been laying a breadcrumb trail since all the way back in Undertale that has basically as of this scene and the music track that plays in the aftermath of the rain, been confirmed; [spoiler]Sans as we know him in Undertale somehow originally came from Deltarune. As to whether he has his famous abilities and fourth-wall knowledge yet I have no idea, but what better world in which for him to have gotten those than the one in which Gaster has [i]not[/i] been erased from the time stream entirely? We've established both Sans getting chummy with Toriel and Toriel being the likely target of an abduction. So Sans is entwined with events now in a way that could potentially extend to a more involved, if different capacity than in Undertale. We might get to see Sans actually giving a shit about something other than stopping the player on the bad route.[/spoiler]\n\n[quote]\"daneasaur\":/users/14432 said:\nHe also stole the pancakes that were intended for Kris, leaving a ketchup bottle in it's place, robbing him of even the SLIGHTEST comfort for that night.\n[/quote]\n\nWe don't have confirmation of that one way or the other. The ketchup bottle completes the set dressing of \"there's a strange man in my house and his food is in the fridge\" while also reconfirming his food preferences, but the pancakes escape mention entirely. Maybe because they're not there, or maybe because Kris just immediately lost their appetite because of the atmosphere so the ketchup is the only thing they really register when checking the fridge.", "created_at": "2025-06-24T12:01:11.990-04:00", "creator_id": 15839, "creator_name": "Pivo", "do_not_bump_post": false, "id": 9143038, "is_hidden": false, "is_sticky": false, "post_id": 5650353, "score": 0, "updated_at": "2025-06-24T12:02:43.151-04:00", "updater_id": 15839, "updater_name": "Pivo", "vote": 0, "warning_type": null, "warning_user_id": null }, { "body": "[quote]\"pivo\":/users/15839 said:\nAaand the pendulum swings the other way. I don't think it's reasonable to condemn what Toriel's doing here in a vacuum, but [spoiler]it's reasonable enough to condemn the insensitivity towards Kris. Once they show up, clearly uncomfortable, and she all but dismisses them and gets right back to it at full volume, that's where it goes from self-care to self-indulgence at the expense of her already-troubled kid. Like okay, you got caught a bit drunk, fine. You still have the opportunity to be a [i]somewhat[/i] more responsible adult in this situation.[/spoiler]\n\nThough part of me wonders if [spoiler]Sans somehow knows what's up and is actually encouraging they be as boisterous as possible to make it apparent from a distance that Toriel isn't alone or an easy target tonight. I suspect he's sly to more than we realize, as usual.[/spoiler]\n[/quote]\n\nI don't give sans the benefit of the doubt here. We don't have anything stating he is remotely the same as the UT version and I must remind everyone that the UT version was only the way he was because he was an assistant for Gaster and had seen the timeline play out multiple times to the point that he felt there was no reason to ever try and change it until you try and destroy the world.\n\nHe also stole the pancakes that were intended for Kris, leaving a ketchup bottle in it's place, robbing him of even the SLIGHTEST comfort for that night.\n\n\n\n[quote]\"rfswitch\":/users/326445 said:\n......That's such a horrible take for a number of reasons. What, so [spoilers]Toriel being able to emotionally move on with her life is bad? She has to tell her child everything she's doing at all times? Also, how is it her fault that they went through trauma after trauma? Even if they knew she was safe, they HAD to close the fountains.[/spoilers] Like, can you for once not be like this. Any of you. This is what makes fandoms look bad, and fate help me, it's ok for [spoilers]Toriel to do what she did. She's a grown woman, a divorced one at that. She doesn't have to justify anything to her kid.[/spoilers]\n[/quote]\n\nIt's one thing to have a fun party night, I don't fault Toriel for having a good time, but she is doing it at a HORRIBLE time and in a horrible way. I must restate:\n- The previous night, she didn't let Susie go home by herself before someone slashed the tires of her car and she called the police.\n- The following day, she has a horrible nightmare, and even though she takes Kris and Susie to church, she is hostile to Rudy and hates that Carol is keeping Asgore financially above water.\n- It's also become blaringly obvious that the lead officer, Undyne, is MISSING and that this is a small town and we have no clue as to how this could happen.\n- Kris and Susie go to the Holiday residence and the last we know, Toriel has stated that if they NEED HER, she will be at the church. Well time passes and you find she's NOT at the church... and likely never was as she says she cancelled choir practice because of the rain.\n\nDid she give a call to the Holiday residence to state that she would be at home? No, she did not.\nDid she show up at the Holiday residence to inform Kris that choir practice was cancelled? No she did not.\nDid she leave a note at the church that said to Kris/Susie that she'd gone home? No she did not.\nDid she get so roaringly drunk that she can barely stand up despite having no confirmation where Kris was? Yes she did.\nDid she invite over someone she could have known only for a total of 10 minutes for said roaringly drunk party? Yes she did.\nDid her guest rob her son of a treat she left for him? Yes he did.\nDid Toriel show a single iota of concern for Kris? No she did not.\nDid Toriel show any concern for Susie? No she did not, even when Susie, visibly disgusted, ran out and slammed the door in her face.\n\nToriel showed a flagrant disregard for parenting duties and this has NOTHING to do with \"getting over her past marriage issues\".\n\nParenting exists in it's own category and Toriel is flagrantly FAILING at it by showing no concern or forethought to Kris' wellbeing.\n\nKris could have spent the entire night locked out of the church in the rain thinking Toriel was inside the whole time as Toriel gave NO information that anything had changed.\n\nI also need to point out that Kris and Susie are still schoolkids. They are not adults and are implied to be early teens at best in the range of 13-14 when Puberty first hits and will cause a whirlwind of mental issues if they are not given proper guidelines.\n\nToriel is FAILING at giving these guidelines.\n\nTo make this ever worse, her JOB is the teaching of CHILDREN even younger than Kris and Susie. If she is so inept as to not even leave a memo or note with the Holidays or at the church that choir practice is cancelled and she's not going to be there, would YOU trust this person to be mindful enough to ensure your little 5 year old didn't wander off and out of the classroom?", "created_at": "2025-06-20T22:57:28.735-04:00", "creator_id": 14432, "creator_name": "Daneasaur", "do_not_bump_post": false, "id": 9135036, "is_hidden": false, "is_sticky": false, "post_id": 5650353, "score": 3, "updated_at": "2025-06-20T22:57:28.735-04:00", "updater_id": 14432, "updater_name": "Daneasaur", "vote": 0, "warning_type": null, "warning_user_id": null }, { "body": "[quote]\"rfswitch\":/users/326445 said:\n......That's such a horrible take for a number of reasons. What, so [spoilers]Toriel being able to emotionally move on with her life is bad? She has to tell her child everything she's doing at all times? Also, how is it her fault that they went through trauma after trauma? Even if they knew she was safe, they HAD to close the fountains.[/spoilers] Like, can you for once not be like this. Any of you. This is what makes fandoms look bad, and fate help me, it's ok for [spoilers]Toriel to do what she did. She's a grown woman, a divorced one at that. She doesn't have to justify anything to her kid.[/spoilers]\n[/quote]\n\nAaand the pendulum swings the other way. I don't think it's reasonable to condemn what Toriel's doing here in a vacuum, but [spoiler]it's reasonable enough to condemn the insensitivity towards Kris. Once they show up, clearly uncomfortable, and she all but dismisses them and gets right back to it at full volume, that's where it goes from self-care to self-indulgence at the expense of her already-troubled kid. Like okay, you got caught a bit drunk, fine. You still have the opportunity to be a [i]somewhat[/i] more responsible adult in this situation.[/spoiler]\n\nThough part of me wonders if [spoiler]Sans somehow knows what's up and is actually encouraging they be as boisterous as possible to make it apparent from a distance that Toriel isn't alone or an easy target tonight. I suspect he's sly to more than we realize, as usual.[/spoiler]", "created_at": "2025-06-20T10:07:00.827-04:00", "creator_id": 15839, "creator_name": "Pivo", "do_not_bump_post": false, "id": 9133787, "is_hidden": false, "is_sticky": false, "post_id": 5650353, "score": 2, "updated_at": "2025-06-20T10:07:00.827-04:00", "updater_id": 15839, "updater_name": "Pivo", "vote": 0, "warning_type": null, "warning_user_id": null }, { "body": "[quote]\"donnybrook\":/users/510563 said:\nI think the thing that stood out most to me during this scene (something that the, otherwise [i]very good[/i], picture ignores) is that Kris [i]doesn't[/i] react with shock at all. \n\nAnd I think that really tells you everything you need to know.\n[/quote]\n\nHell I highly doubt Asgore was the one instigating all the arguments Tenna talks about in chapter 3.", "created_at": "2025-06-19T21:01:01.587-04:00", "creator_id": 460416, "creator_name": "reetrox", "do_not_bump_post": false, "id": 9132688, "is_hidden": false, "is_sticky": false, "post_id": 5650353, "score": 3, "updated_at": "2025-06-19T21:01:01.587-04:00", "updater_id": 460416, "updater_name": "reetrox", "vote": 0, "warning_type": null, "warning_user_id": null }, { "body": "[quote]\"daneasaur\":/users/14432 said:\nI heard zero rimshots with the back and forth, and again, it was single notes, not sentences, but I'll shrug in that regard.\n[/quote]\nReally? That's bizarre. I mean feel free to look up any of the videos of that scene on YouTube; it's all there.\n\n[quote]\"daneasaur\":/users/14432 said:\nOn that note, however, I press that what Kris does out of the player's control is important. Kris didn't try to save Toriel from the Knight, that was Susie. Kris showed no response to Toriel's antics here other than to look away and refuse to say anything. He also intentionally plays Piano terribly and only when Susie politely encourages him does Kris show that yes he CAN play the Piano, implying he refuses to play it for Toriel as he has no respect for her anymore.\n[/quote]\n\nWe have never yet even had a prompt to play it in front of Toriel. Also there's a scene you can miss in the Holiday house where [spoiler]after yanking you out and taking the phone call Kris goes off to the far side of the kitchen and just launches into an 8-minute piano-playing session.[/spoiler] Also the only time we're able to sort-of play the piano through Kris is when the array of button prompts shows up for puzzles; outside of the context of puzzles the only option is \"Play\" with a single button press which yields a blind smashing of the keys. Consider also the racing \"game\" in ch3 where \"it's like [Kris] isn't even looking at the screen\". There are definitely implications that Kris resents Toriel AND mounting evidence that they're in cahoots with both [spoiler]the Knight and Carol (assuming them to be separate), and want to prevent us from getting into the Shelter as much as Susie so they're definitely entangled in something nefarious[/spoiler] but the reason they won't normally play the piano is because [spoiler]they need to wrest a moment of autonomy from us as the player to be able to do so properly.[/spoiler]", "created_at": "2025-06-19T13:13:06.838-04:00", "creator_id": 15839, "creator_name": "Pivo", "do_not_bump_post": false, "id": 9131959, "is_hidden": false, "is_sticky": false, "post_id": 5650353, "score": 0, "updated_at": "2025-06-19T13:16:41.424-04:00", "updater_id": 15839, "updater_name": "Pivo", "vote": 0, "warning_type": null, "warning_user_id": null }, { "body": "[quote]\"pivo\":/users/15839 said:\nThey're talking back and forth and then [spoiler]rimshots start manifesting after every vocalization from Sans, so for all we know he's telling his famous knock-knock jokes. (Also, the idea that the rimshots actually project themselves from the ether as some strange cosmic response to his puns is hilarious to me.) It's the [i]escalating frequency[/i] of the rimshots that give the scene the majority of its double-entendre effect; but it also acts to contradict itself because you can still hear the same record playing so they're most likely still in the living room, and I don't think Toriel is [i]that[/i] wild of a drunk.[/spoiler]\n\nAnd of course it's disturbing Kris, but it isn't necessarily disturbing on any level deeper than, \"FOR FUCK'S SAKE I JUST FOUGHT A [spoiler]TUBE OF ARMAGEDDON[/spoiler], BARELY ESCAPED WITH MY LIFE, GOT CAUGHT IN THE RAIN AND CAN YOU KEEP THE VOLUME DOWN I JUST WANT SOME [B]SLEEP.[/B]\"\n[/quote]\n\nI heard zero rimshots with the back and forth, and again, it was single notes, not sentences, but I'll shrug in that regard.\n\nOn that note, however, I press that what Kris does out of the player's control is important. Kris didn't try to save Toriel from the Knight, that was Susie. Kris showed no response to Toriel's antics here other than to look away and refuse to say anything. He also intentionally plays Piano terribly and only when Susie politely encourages him does Kris show that yes he CAN play the Piano, implying he refuses to play it for Toriel as he has no respect for her anymore.\n\nWe also know that there is something relating to a \"sacrifice\" and Undyne was not the FIRST choice for the Knight. \n\nAnd [spoiler]when you check the shelter after Susie leaves, the door opens for Kris without any code.[/spoiler]", "created_at": "2025-06-19T07:27:12.397-04:00", "creator_id": 14432, "creator_name": "Daneasaur", "do_not_bump_post": false, "id": 9131521, "is_hidden": false, "is_sticky": false, "post_id": 5650353, "score": 0, "updated_at": "2025-06-19T07:27:12.397-04:00", "updater_id": 14432, "updater_name": "Daneasaur", "vote": 0, "warning_type": null, "warning_user_id": null }, { "body": "[quote]\"daneasaur\":/users/14432 said:\nI'm not sure what you mean by \"Dating fight\", I'm going off of what is presented in the actual events and that we've had a time lapse of Kris going into the bedroom and removing his soul and he's trying to NOT hear what is going on, and the notes from Toriel and Sans are more than a little suspicious at that moment. We're not hearing sentences of talking or them mingling together, it's more of a \"tennis match\" and it's very clearly disturbing to Kris.\n[/quote]\n\nThey're talking back and forth and then [spoiler]rimshots start manifesting after every vocalization from Sans, so for all we know he's telling his famous knock-knock jokes. (Also, the idea that the rimshots actually project themselves from the ether as some strange cosmic response to his puns is hilarious to me.) It's the [i]escalating frequency[/i] of the rimshots that give the scene the majority of its double-entendre effect; but it also acts to contradict itself because you can still hear the same record playing so they're most likely still in the living room, and I don't think Toriel is [i]that[/i] wild of a drunk.[/spoiler]\n\nAnd of course it's disturbing Kris, but it isn't necessarily disturbing on any level deeper than, \"FOR FUCK'S SAKE I JUST FOUGHT A [spoiler]TUBE OF ARMAGEDDON[/spoiler], BARELY ESCAPED WITH MY LIFE, GOT CAUGHT IN THE RAIN AND CAN YOU KEEP THE VOLUME DOWN I JUST WANT SOME [B]SLEEP.[/B]\"", "created_at": "2025-06-19T03:50:26.850-04:00", "creator_id": 15839, "creator_name": "Pivo", "do_not_bump_post": false, "id": 9131294, "is_hidden": false, "is_sticky": false, "post_id": 5650353, "score": 0, "updated_at": "2025-06-19T03:54:27.809-04:00", "updater_id": 15839, "updater_name": "Pivo", "vote": 0, "warning_type": null, "warning_user_id": null }, { "body": "[quote]\"nullperson\":/users/267454 said:\nThis is a well written thing! I only have a single issue:\n[spoiler]Sans does not actually bone Toriel - they just keep dancing into the night. That one rip of Dating Fight is not canon, thankfully.[/spoiler]\n\n[/quote]\n\nI'm not sure what you mean by \"Dating fight\", I'm going off of what is presented in the actual events and that we've had a time lapse of Kris going into the bedroom and removing his soul and he's trying to NOT hear what is going on, and the notes from Toriel and Sans are more than a little suspicious at that moment. We're not hearing sentences of talking or them mingling together, it's more of a \"tennis match\" and it's very clearly disturbing to Kris.\n\nAt the root of it, I'm mainly pointing out that Toriel is just as much of an issue as Asgore, if not worse.\n\nI've grown up with a parent who seems straight laced and on good terms with the community, only to come home and be a roaring drunk who cares NOTHING for you and even finds you to be in the way of their good time. You go to some very dark places when you don't have the ability to escape that.", "created_at": "2025-06-18T22:40:01.989-04:00", "creator_id": 14432, "creator_name": "Daneasaur", "do_not_bump_post": false, "id": 9130753, "is_hidden": false, "is_sticky": false, "post_id": 5650353, "score": 1, "updated_at": "2025-06-18T22:40:01.989-04:00", "updater_id": 14432, "updater_name": "Daneasaur", "vote": 0, "warning_type": null, "warning_user_id": null }, { "body": "[quote]\"killbot1147\":/users/573816 said:\n..... damn thats actually a good argument. like damn.\n\nbut yeah i think that scene just pull the last string toriel is just a bloody mess.\n[/quote]\n\nOh yeah no doubt the whole thing also serves to show us that toriel is far from being a perfect model family person and that she has her own issues too.", "created_at": "2025-06-18T19:29:05.742-04:00", "creator_id": 1688669, "creator_name": "Arquila8000", "do_not_bump_post": false, "id": 9130425, "is_hidden": false, "is_sticky": false, "post_id": 5650353, "score": 3, "updated_at": "2025-07-04T20:41:32.456-04:00", "updater_id": 1688669, "updater_name": "Arquila8000", "vote": 0, "warning_type": null, "warning_user_id": null }, { "body": "I love this scene because it's both extremely faithful to character and impressively multilayered.\n\nSo on the one hand you've got Toriel. Sweet to the point of saccharine, strict and straight-laced... and secretly a party animal who really gets going with some alcohol in her system which is something she keeps adamantly under wraps:\n\nhttps://undertaleqa.tumblr.com/post/150441869728/papyrus-whats-your-favourite-food\nhttps://undertale.com/alarmclock/toriel/\n\n(These were tied to the post-pacifist Undertale world pre-Deltarune reveal, so she is nothing if not consistent.) I think the critical flaw in her character is that she's terrible with any sort of interpersonal difficulties, often to the point of hypocrisy. [spoiler]In both games she and Asgore are certainly in mutually unenviable positions of responsibility and frankly neither of them have a proper bloody idea of what they're doing; in Deltarune specifically she's the single mother of a clearly very troubled adopted human in their tween years and you definitely get the impression Kris was subjected to living in Asriel's shadow on top of whatever the incident was with the Holidays that disappeared Dess, split up the family and likely required extensive therapy for Kris. Then there's Asgore's insistent and unwanted attempts to rekindle their relationship regardless of how public the spectacle becomes in the process. Toriel's got valid reason to be stressed and want a moment to unwind.[/spoiler]\n\n[spoiler]So far as she knew Kris was just hanging out with their new friend on a Sunday, maybe at the Holiday's, and we've established she has good chemistry with Sans, so she got into it and lost track of time... while Kris was, at least briefly, locked out of the house with (allegedly) no house key of their own and yeah Toriel definitely has lapses in judgement. So you've got this scene playing out from the audience's perspective as probably the closest thing to fanservice in either of these games, seeing Toriel [i]and[/i] Sans, a couple of the most usually-reserved characters just... cutting loose and actually having a good time, and it's honestly heartwarming. I mean, can you really see Undertale's Sans dancing? That's way too high-effort for him. But right there, off to the side as this is happening, are Kris and Susie's mutual \"visceral wincing\" reaction. I don't think Toriel is in the habit of just getting blotto and bringing strange guys home (nor are they fucking, it's just a wink-wink nudge-nudge joke to the adults playing), but Kris has definitely seen her drunk before. And also they just got done scouring the Dark World for her and fighting a goddamn Titan and it turns out she was fine all along.[/spoiler]\n\n[spoiler]And Susie's similarly uncomfortable reaction would seem to indicate that she has similar if not worse problems with her own parents, she just gets caught up staring for a while at first because as far as she knows Toriel is this incredibly straight-laced person, also considering her story about Toriel taking her to the diner a while back, and it's disillusioning at the very least. So... it's a moment of catharsis, fun, relief, weakness, discomfort, poor judgement; of characters being written with very believable and consistent flaws.[/spoiler]\n\nBut yeah it does make you feel bad for Kris for obvious reasons.", "created_at": "2025-06-18T18:41:05.155-04:00", "creator_id": 15839, "creator_name": "Pivo", "do_not_bump_post": false, "id": 9130354, "is_hidden": false, "is_sticky": false, "post_id": 5650353, "score": 9, "updated_at": "2025-06-18T19:19:38.973-04:00", "updater_id": 15839, "updater_name": "Pivo", "vote": 0, "warning_type": null, "warning_user_id": null }, { "body": "I personally like to think the SOUL went by itself to the cage just give Kris [i]something[/i] that day.\nAnd considering it's supposed to represent the player, that means that I'm technically correct because that's what I would've done.", "created_at": "2025-06-18T16:54:26.926-04:00", "creator_id": 279872, "creator_name": "Deserter", "do_not_bump_post": false, "id": 9130125, "is_hidden": false, "is_sticky": false, "post_id": 5650353, "score": 4, "updated_at": "2025-06-18T16:54:26.926-04:00", "updater_id": 279872, "updater_name": "Deserter", "vote": 0, "warning_type": null, "warning_user_id": null }, { "body": "[quote]\"arquila8000\":/users/1688669 said:\nWow i think you might be antagonizing toriel too much and while i aggree with some points in your comment, i still think that she generally still cares deeply about kris it's just that she's horribly unaware and ignores kris because to be frankly she's kinda a clumsy woman (specially when drinking).\n\nAnd to be fair btw is that about the \"heavy implications\" of toriel actually having sex with sans, It's obvious that on a mostly pg game that's not really what's happening since the ch 4 ending does intentionally have a double meaning joke.\n[/quote]\n\n..... damn thats actually a good argument. like damn.\n\nbut yeah i think that scene just pull the last string toriel is just a bloody mess.", "created_at": "2025-06-18T15:43:14.677-04:00", "creator_id": 573816, "creator_name": "killbot1147", "do_not_bump_post": false, "id": 9130012, "is_hidden": false, "is_sticky": false, "post_id": 5650353, "score": 0, "updated_at": "2025-06-18T15:43:14.677-04:00", "updater_id": 573816, "updater_name": "killbot1147", "vote": 0, "warning_type": null, "warning_user_id": null }, { "body": "[quote]\"daneasaur\":/users/14432 said:\nWhile I don't argue that the Odd Route scene with Noelle is disturbing, this scene and the following scene honestly made me sick to my stomach and cemented my hatred for two characters.\n\nElaboration spoiled (and omitted from this reply).\n[/quote]\n\nThis is a well written thing! I only have a single issue:\n[spoiler]Sans does not actually bone Toriel - they just keep dancing into the night. That one rip of Dating Fight is not canon, thankfully.[/spoiler]\n", "created_at": "2025-06-18T14:04:37.393-04:00", "creator_id": 267454, "creator_name": "NullPerson", "do_not_bump_post": false, "id": 9129863, "is_hidden": false, "is_sticky": false, "post_id": 5650353, "score": 2, "updated_at": "2025-06-18T14:04:37.393-04:00", "updater_id": 267454, "updater_name": "NullPerson", "vote": 0, "warning_type": null, "warning_user_id": null }, { "body": "[quote]\"daneasaur\":/users/14432 said:\nI politely counter that the game is rated T if Susie splitting her hand and Ralsei emotionally breaking down with blood smeared on his face are any indications, as well as the entire sequence of the Odd route and how that very much had heavy \"double meaning\" implications.\n\nWhile this was initially to be \"silly\" by seeing the one you spent the last two chapters trying to save is not only fine but in the middle of a party, it doesn't play out that way. There is no humorous reactions from Kris or Susie, instead both are disgusted and Kris' reaction outright implies this is far from the first time she has done something like this. In fact the sounds lead souless Kris into standing on the edge of the window in his room, ready to jump off, and ONLY because he sees Susie and he gets a phone call from \"the other one\" does he NOT jump.\n[/quote]\n\nYeah i won't argue with the blood thing and that the scene of kris and toriel finding out toriel drunkenly doing the jittering along with sans is probably meant to be uncomfortable rather than funny but my point still stands that it's most likely that canonically what's happening between toriel and sans is merely platonic, Ever since undertale toby fox has had the two as merely good pun friends with a romantic subtext as a joke.", "created_at": "2025-06-18T12:31:51.586-04:00", "creator_id": 1688669, "creator_name": "Arquila8000", "do_not_bump_post": false, "id": 9129698, "is_hidden": false, "is_sticky": false, "post_id": 5650353, "score": 0, "updated_at": "2025-06-18T15:19:24.689-04:00", "updater_id": 1688669, "updater_name": "Arquila8000", "vote": 0, "warning_type": null, "warning_user_id": null }, { "body": "[quote]\"arquila8000\":/users/1688669 said:\nWow i think you might be antagonizing toriel too much and while i aggree with some points in your comment, i still think that she generally still cares deeply about kris it's just that she's horribly unaware and ignores kris because to be frankly she's kinda a clumsy woman (specially when drinking).\n\nAnd to be fair btw is that about the \"heavy implications\" of toriel actually having sex with sans, It's obvious that on a mostly pg game that's not really what's happening since the ch 4 ending does intentionally have a double meaning joke.\n[/quote]\n\nI politely counter that the game is rated T if Susie splitting her hand and Ralsei emotionally breaking down with blood smeared on his face are any indications, as well as the entire sequence of the Odd route and how that very much had heavy \"double meaning\" implications.\n\nWhile this was initially to be \"silly\" by seeing the one you spent the last two chapters trying to save is not only fine but in the middle of a party, it doesn't play out that way. There is no humorous reactions from Kris or Susie, instead both are disgusted and Kris' reaction outright implies this is far from the first time she has done something like this. In fact the sounds lead souless Kris into standing on the edge of the window in his room, ready to jump off, and ONLY because he sees Susie and he gets a phone call from \"the other one\" does he NOT jump.", "created_at": "2025-06-18T07:57:19.842-04:00", "creator_id": 14432, "creator_name": "Daneasaur", "do_not_bump_post": false, "id": 9129343, "is_hidden": false, "is_sticky": false, "post_id": 5650353, "score": 13, "updated_at": "2025-06-18T07:57:19.842-04:00", "updater_id": 14432, "updater_name": "Daneasaur", "vote": 0, "warning_type": null, "warning_user_id": null }, { "body": "[quote]\"daneasaur\":/users/14432 said:\nWhile I don't argue that the Odd Route scene with Noelle is disturbing, this scene and the following scene honestly made me sick to my stomach and cemented my hatred for two characters.\n\nElaboration spoiled.\n\n[spoiler]Kris and Susie had a brief stint over at Noelle's and Toriel said she would be at the church for choir practice. After creepy shit happens at Noelle's place, you go to see Toriel, and find a fountain is at the church. After THREE darkworld stints there AND fighting and KILLING a Titan, and the revelation that the prophecy states Susie (or Kris) MUST die to save the world, they find that they can't find Toriel in the church. The yare both depressed and don't even want to visit the dark castle town, so they go to Kris' home and Susie even asks to spend the night as they walk up to the door.[/spoiler]\n\n[spoiler]To their horror, Toriel is... just fine. Better than fine as she's drinking copious amounts of wine and is clearly drunk to the point she's falling on the floor inbetween her attempts at dancing with sans to extremely loud music. Kris refuses to look at Toriel OR Susie and says nothing, and Susie is so disgusted with the whole thing that even as Toriel invites Susie to sleep in Asriel's bed for the night, she abruptly denies the invite and walks out, slamming the door shut.[/spoiler]\n\n[spoiler]This is compounded as Kris, the ever vicious sweet tooth, ignores the promise of sweets and goes straight to his room. There is a brief time lapse and we see Kris has torn out his soul and stuffed it in the cage and is trying to sleep. However, we hear noises from the next door bedroom... indistinct back and forth of single notes of Sans and Toriel speech sounds that go faster and faster, ending with a particularly loud sans note, all while Kris tries to hide his head under a pillow and can't escape it. He even goes to the window of his room, which is on the second story of the house, and is ready to throw himself out. The only things that stop him are a glimpse of Susie, and the voice on his phone.[/spoiler]\n\n[spoiler]The reason this is so damn bad is that Toriel has portrayed herself as a straight laced lady of good faith and a teacher, the initial implication in the early chapters being that Asgore is the reason for the breakup. However, the cracks show as you realize she cares very little for Kris. She shows no concern for the fact he has nothing in his side of the room, she rarely ensures he actually gets to school or does his work, and she didn't bother to inform Kris or anyone that she wasn't at the church when she HERSELF cancelled choir practice. It should also be noted that when Asriel was kissed on a cheek by a girl he knew quite well, she instantly sent him to confession, yet in Deltarune, Toriel has only met sans over the past day and not only is having a drunken party with him, it's implied she has drunken sex with him as well, and from Kris' reaction, this isn't the first time she's done this sort of thing. Susie also recalls Toriel comforting her during a particularly sad day, but this instance rendered Susie so disgusted that she refused to even be in the same building as her.[/spoiler]\n\n[spoiler]Sans sees Kris walk home once or twice, and suddenly he's in the home with Toriel as she is getting drunk off her ass and then soliciting him of which he accepts. Any sort of viewpoint where he \"sees more\" or has any clairvoyance is snubbed hard here as Susie needed security this night and if he had foresight, he wouldn't have been there as it would have allowed Kris and Susie to bond over another night.[/spoiler]\n\n[spoiler]I wouldn't be surprised if Kris' end goal is to cause a horrific end specifically to Toriel since he himself showed no concern when the Knight tried to take her, and after what Susie has seen, Susie likely would not have fought to prevent the Knight from taking her if she had seen it prior.[/spoiler]\n[/quote]\n\nWow i think you might be antagonizing toriel too much and while i aggree with some points in your comment, she obviously still cares deeply about kris (it's her child afterall) it's just that she's horribly ignorant not only to kris but is also uncaring whenever shady or suspicous stuff to which to be frankly i think it fits toriel since she's sometimes depicted as kinda a clumsy and naive (specially when drinking).\n\nAnd to be fair btw talking about the \"heavy implications\" of toriel and sans actually having something romantic, It's obvious that on a mostly PG game that is obviously not what's happening in reality rather it's the moment just (intentionally or unintentionally by Toby) having a double meaning subtext/joke to it.", "created_at": "2025-06-18T06:15:43.319-04:00", "creator_id": 1688669, "creator_name": "Arquila8000", "do_not_bump_post": false, "id": 9129234, "is_hidden": false, "is_sticky": false, "post_id": 5650353, "score": 8, "updated_at": "2026-01-22T18:21:56.177-05:00", "updater_id": 1688669, "updater_name": "Arquila8000", "vote": 0, "warning_type": null, "warning_user_id": null }, { "body": "[quote]\"donnybrook\":/users/510563 said:\nI think the thing that stood out most to me during this scene (something that the, otherwise [i]very good[/i], picture ignores) is that Kris [i]doesn't[/i] react with shock at all. \n\nAnd I think that really tells you everything you need to know.\n[/quote]\n\nYeah, as I said, the fact that Kris says nothing and just won't look at her implies she's done this more than once.", "created_at": "2025-06-18T05:28:50.346-04:00", "creator_id": 14432, "creator_name": "Daneasaur", "do_not_bump_post": false, "id": 9129194, "is_hidden": false, "is_sticky": false, "post_id": 5650353, "score": 4, "updated_at": "2025-06-18T05:28:50.346-04:00", "updater_id": 14432, "updater_name": "Daneasaur", "vote": 0, "warning_type": null, "warning_user_id": null }, { "body": "I think the thing that stood out most to me during this scene (something that the, otherwise [i]very good[/i], picture ignores) is that Kris [i]doesn't[/i] react with shock at all. \n\nAnd I think that really tells you everything you need to know.", "created_at": "2025-06-18T05:05:53.315-04:00", "creator_id": 510563, "creator_name": "DonnyBrook", "do_not_bump_post": false, "id": 9129162, "is_hidden": false, "is_sticky": false, "post_id": 5650353, "score": 7, "updated_at": "2025-06-18T05:05:53.315-04:00", "updater_id": 510563, "updater_name": "DonnyBrook", "vote": 0, "warning_type": null, "warning_user_id": null }, { "body": "That \"guy\" might be a fan favorite but deltarune is definitely gonna make that lazybones into a damn complex guy. \nEdit for rasins ", "created_at": "2025-06-18T05:00:04.257-04:00", "creator_id": 426361, "creator_name": "Articusgale937", "do_not_bump_post": false, "id": 9129153, "is_hidden": false, "is_sticky": false, "post_id": 5650353, "score": 3, "updated_at": "2025-06-18T05:00:41.059-04:00", "updater_id": 426361, "updater_name": "Articusgale937", "vote": 0, "warning_type": null, "warning_user_id": null }, { "body": "[quote]\"daneasaur\":/users/14432 said:\nWhile I don't argue that the Odd Route scene with Noelle is disturbing, this scene and the following scene honestly made me sick to my stomach and cemented my hatred for two characters.\n\nElaboration spoiled.\n\n\n[/quote]\n\nI do think most of your elaboration is based off your own interpretation over what's objectively true, but I do agree with the sentiment. \n\n[spoiler] I also never connected the dots between her relationship with Sans and her reaction to Asriel's kiss. Wow, that's scuffed. [/spoiler]", "created_at": "2025-06-18T04:58:01.850-04:00", "creator_id": 681122, "creator_name": "PleasePleaseMe", "do_not_bump_post": false, "id": 9129151, "is_hidden": false, "is_sticky": false, "post_id": 5650353, "score": 9, "updated_at": "2025-06-18T04:58:01.850-04:00", "updater_id": 681122, "updater_name": "PleasePleaseMe", "vote": 0, "warning_type": null, "warning_user_id": null }, { "body": "Ngl i legit felt susie during this scene, She was like: \"Welp i was planning on staying the night with kris in his home but screw that, Better leave before i say something i might regret to kris' drunkard mom and this skeleton midget\".\n\nWhile kris in their head was probably like: \"Y'know what? i don't even care anymore it's not worth it kris, Just go to bed and let her live in her own ignorant world and by the way this skeleton guy that just moved to this town just a few days ago better not be here by the morning or so help me\".", "created_at": "2025-06-18T04:54:26.707-04:00", "creator_id": 1688669, "creator_name": "Arquila8000", "do_not_bump_post": false, "id": 9129143, "is_hidden": false, "is_sticky": false, "post_id": 5650353, "score": 18, "updated_at": "2025-07-14T04:22:07.813-04:00", "updater_id": 1688669, "updater_name": "Arquila8000", "vote": 0, "warning_type": null, "warning_user_id": null }, { "body": "While I don't argue that the Odd Route scene with Noelle is disturbing, this scene and the following scene honestly made me sick to my stomach and cemented my hatred for two characters.\n\nElaboration spoiled.\n\n[spoiler]Kris and Susie had a brief stint over at Noelle's and Toriel said she would be at the church for choir practice. After creepy shit happens at Noelle's place, you go to see Toriel, and find a fountain is at the church. After THREE darkworld stints there AND fighting and KILLING a Titan, and the revelation that the prophecy states Susie (or Kris) MUST die to save the world, they find that they can't find Toriel in the church. The yare both depressed and don't even want to visit the dark castle town, so they go to Kris' home and Susie even asks to spend the night as they walk up to the door.[/spoiler]\n\n[spoiler]To their horror, Toriel is... just fine. Better than fine as she's drinking copious amounts of wine and is clearly drunk to the point she's falling on the floor inbetween her attempts at dancing with sans to extremely loud music. Kris refuses to look at Toriel OR Susie and says nothing, and Susie is so disgusted with the whole thing that even as Toriel invites Susie to sleep in Asriel's bed for the night, she abruptly denies the invite and walks out, slamming the door shut.[/spoiler]\n\n[spoiler]This is compounded as Kris, the ever vicious sweet tooth, ignores the promise of sweets and goes straight to his room. There is a brief time lapse and we see Kris has torn out his soul and stuffed it in the cage and is trying to sleep. However, we hear noises from the next door bedroom... indistinct back and forth of single notes of Sans and Toriel speech sounds that go faster and faster, ending with a particularly loud sans note, all while Kris tries to hide his head under a pillow and can't escape it. He even goes to the window of his room, which is on the second story of the house, and is ready to throw himself out. The only things that stop him are a glimpse of Susie, and the voice on his phone.[/spoiler]\n\n[spoiler]The reason this is so damn bad is that Toriel has portrayed herself as a straight laced lady of good faith and a teacher, the initial implication in the early chapters being that Asgore is the reason for the breakup. However, the cracks show as you realize she cares very little for Kris. She shows no concern for the fact he has nothing in his side of the room, she rarely ensures he actually gets to school or does his work, and she didn't bother to inform Kris or anyone that she wasn't at the church when she HERSELF cancelled choir practice. It should also be noted that when Asriel was kissed on a cheek by a girl he knew quite well, she instantly sent him to confession, yet in Deltarune, Toriel has only met sans over the past day and not only is having a drunken party with him, it's implied she has drunken sex with him as well, and from Kris' reaction, this isn't the first time she's done this sort of thing. Susie also recalls Toriel comforting her during a particularly sad day, but this instance rendered Susie so disgusted that she refused to even be in the same building as her.[/spoiler]\n\n[spoiler]Sans sees Kris walk home once or twice, and suddenly he's in the home with Toriel as she is getting drunk off her ass and then soliciting him of which he accepts. Any sort of viewpoint where he \"sees more\" or has any clairvoyance is snubbed hard here as Susie needed security this night and if he had foresight, he wouldn't have been there as it would have allowed Kris and Susie to bond over another night.[/spoiler]\n\n[spoiler]I wouldn't be surprised if Kris' end goal is to cause a horrific end specifically to Toriel since he himself showed no concern when the Knight tried to take her, and after what Susie has seen, Susie likely would not have fought to prevent the Knight from taking her if she had seen it prior.[/spoiler]", "created_at": "2025-06-18T04:33:43.508-04:00", "creator_id": 14432, "creator_name": "Daneasaur", "do_not_bump_post": false, "id": 9129113, "is_hidden": false, "is_sticky": false, "post_id": 5650353, "score": 27, "updated_at": "2025-06-18T04:33:43.508-04:00", "updater_id": 14432, "updater_name": "Daneasaur", "vote": 0, "warning_type": null, "warning_user_id": null } ] }